Developer’s License
With version 1.6.x we have an impressive amount of plug-ins made by third party developers and with version 2 on its way we wanted to give more developers a chance to create plug-ins for the anticipated version. We are therefore testing a new product license. The “Developer’s License” is intended for any developer interested in creating a plug-in for our community and for them to have access to our User-User Support Forums and to provide support for their mods. The requirements for a Developer’s License are still being discussed as we are still testing the waters.
The basic requirements for now is that the developer has to be active within our User-User Support Forums and provide plug-ins(either for free or for a fee). They also have to provide support for their own plug-ins. If a developer is inactive within the community or they intentionally avoid supporting their plug-ins their privileges are revoked.
Within the forums they will be a part of the User group called “3rd Party Developers - TRIAL”. Once they have established themselves within the community and our members are confident in them, the “Trial” will be removed.
To apply for a Developer’s License submit your query here.
More information regarding this new license will be announced once we have gathered enough information from both developers and our community.
EDITED 12th March, 2009: The Developer’s License can not be sold or transferred to someone else. The Developer’s License is designated to you.
I think a developer license should require at minimum x-amount of free mod contributions and I’m not talking about small petty stuff, but a quality nice free mod(s). We all know that developers have no problems with charging for something that should be free and if phpfox is going to give them a developer license for free then the developer should contribute a few good quality mods that where the ratio of free mods are greater than paid mods.
The forums have just gotten way out of hand with paid mods that half ass function and depleted a users wallet an average of $100 per blow… That’s just sick and dishonest imo.
Also, if you are going to allow mods posted then they need to be supported in the forums. See so many jacked up threads with no support, contact us via email, or the developers are just out right asses. If you can’t support it in the forum then it doesn’t need to be posted imo.
“3rd Party Developers - TRIAL” is a long name, how about keeping it simple and let people pick up on existing terminology ““Modder - TRIAL” & “Designer - TRIAL”.
Sorry to rant but I really had enough of all the wacked up mods for sale. We need more free to thrive as a real community. Honestly I think you should suspend selling on the forums and build on a free community. People who do good mods can pick up sales through referrals of their free mods and word of mouth and sell the products on their own site.
[Reply]
“for them to have access to our User-User Support Forums and to provide support for their mods.”
I just noticed this part which I am just not comfortable with someone developing mods just to come to our forums and sell them. If they are not a member or hold a valid paid license then I think any submissions coming from them should only be free mods only(Modder - Trial). If and when they buy a real license then allow them to sell mods to keep things fair and to build on our community(Modder - Full).
[Reply]
FWIW I think the phpfox team should stop trying to placate everyone and focus on developing a great product. I think the communication has been much better in the past couple months but the development schedule has been slow to say the least. If they do anything to facilitate the developer community it should be minimal and as self regulating as possible. The value to phpfox users is having all the mods in one location with reviews of product and the developers support record but right now it’s coming at the expense of bickering within the community and a negative reputation for phpfox. If I found an item on phpfox that doesn’t work and I can’t get support even though a third party is providing it phpfox still is associated with the transaction. If I were doing this I would create an “app store” that contained product reviews and referrals to developer(s) site and let the community decide the value of a given item. I would NOT want to become the mediator between developers who all claim their source code was “stolen” and have that all play out on my user to user forums like has happened in the past.
“I think a developer license should require at minimum x-amount of free mod contributions and I’m not talking about small petty stuff, but a quality nice free mod(s).”
While I believe phpfox should do everything in their power to *encourage* developers and that you have great intentions ClubUgly I don’t believe this would do it. Their best option is a solid product that makes it easy to develop for (think facebook). Anyway that’s my two cents take it for what its worth.
[Reply]
Purefan Reply:
February 9th, 2009 at 4:54 am
well the development schedule was set way before we released the alpha, and we’re actually going as planned.
We are developing a robust and flexible product, but from our experience communication is the best way. Thats why we are spending so much time in documentation, both internal and external. When the next release is ready you will see the improved documentation in the module’s logic and the wiki has proved to be quite effective for teaching purposes. Still we dont want to rely on the developer’s initiative and that’s why we also look for other alternatives, we dont like to “wait and see” and are trying to be as proactive as possible.
I trust you will all agree this is only for the benefit of the community. As to the rules we still have to define it properly but the idea is to encourage developers to work on the script. The purpose of every site is to stand out, and we cant develop one solution that fits everyone and make them stand out all out-of-the-box so thats when 3d party devs come in handy (to you).
[Reply]
There are 5 tools/features already in the forum.
- thanks
- installs
- ratings
- reputation
- feedback (itrader)
How many users (members) are actually using them to rate other users (modders)? probably not 5% except the “thanks” and “install” feature to some extent.
You can have any title for a member who is contributing to the community by free/paid modifications but that is not gonna work if you do not regulate the buying/selling with some policy/terms.
This policy/terms could look something like this.
For Developers (Sellers):
- Developers should not be allowed to sell anything unless they have a valid phpfox license, joined the forum from over X months, XXX number of posts, XX number of thanks for their postings, their public contact details, and may be an introduction thread by them as well. This could be all of the conditions or any combination of these. (So let them start with helping the community by their free mods or by useful posts. let the choice be theirs, so not restricting to have compulsory free mods which I am sure can put off many modders.)
- Developers should not be asked to apply for a license. Depending upon their first contribution to mods/themes section should automatically get them entitled for that. If their modification is not worth adding they are not worth to be added to modders group.
- Developers should be allowed to support in any way they feel comfortable with. But any “legit” negative feedback “using itrader” by customers should strictly be taken against him and he may have his selling powers revoked and existing threads locked/restricted unless the issue is resolved. (the infraction system of 3 negative feed backs can work as well.)
- Developers can have their custom titles like fresh modder, modder or Sr. modder depending upon the number of their + feedbacks.
- Developers should mention the mod download process. if it is instant or if it will take up to XX number of hours to deliver the product and what they should be asking from the user in the purchase note like their licensed site url.
- Once you give them the title of modder, they should be given the privilege to install phpfox on a demo site or better yet give them a fresh install/ftp/ in phpfox controlled environment. may be like demo.phpfox.com/chodhry/1.6demo or demo.phpfox.com/chodhry/ver2/. So a consolidated demo of all of the mods could be made which really can help in the longer run. They can actually be given a space on demo.phpfox.com/modder_name so they could use the space to demo their phpfox modifications. This way you could also test the mod any time before approving it. This can also be integrated to a bug tracker/feature request for that particular modder. (Imagine, some one goes to demo.phpfox.com/chodhry and on that page they could see all of the mods developed by chodhry, along with their ratings/reviews and identified/open/fixed/in-progress bugs submitted by users for support. A place where a user (buyer) could not only post a bug but also suggest/ask for a feature or custom work. And everything adding up to the user credibility. (vb forum with a few added plugin is very much capable of all of the above stuff.)
Now comes the other part.
For Users (Buyers):
- There must be a disclaimer on the modifications thread that please do your own research before buying anything from any modder. Check their demo page, check their feedback, thanks, installs, reviews, every possible thing to avoid any scam…
- After every purchase please do these things depending upon your experience with the modder/mod.
– rate the mod thread
– thanks the modder
– mark it installed
– give user feedback
– give user reputation points
- In case of any dispute please try to resolve it in the best possible/professional way and do not forget to submit the feedback because this is the only thing you can do to keep the modder from scamming others and have his modder rights revoked.
- No action should be taken just on the basis of a forum topic against any modder which only create chaos in the community and increase aggression and discomfort. A negative feedback rating should be made compulsory to raise any such dispute.
- There should be no harsh comments by any user on the price/feature set of the mod/service. A plugin/modification is mod’s property, let them do what ever they want to do with its price and features. They still can suggest some changes in both but NO harsh language or trashing the thread by users should be allowed.
well, Looks like I had lot of ample time and I think it’s lot of text to read so I better stop it right here. :p
[Reply]
The ins and outs have already started discussions in the company and we have a preliminary document for the procedures and requirements which to some extent imply what you have stated here along with other measures (which I cant mention just yet). However your contribution is very appreciated and I’ll be sure to bring it up in our next meeting
[Reply]
I am glad you liked these suggestions. BTW, just another thought came into my head.
Mods/Modders and an active forum are the biggest reason behind most of the user’s decision in buying phpfox.
So may be if you could offer some monthly rewards to the contributing/active community members/modders. Thats does not have to be an apple i phone or a mac book. A FREE PhpFox license is way more attractive. So for instance if you end up giving 12 licenses for FREE in an year, you are getting a whole lot of forum/mods activity against it.
This ultimate prize could be given in a monthly contest of most valuable member of the month or anything like that. You can have MOTM plugin for vb or can decide about the member according to their + feedbacks (both buying/selling) or thanks given to them in that month.
This can increase the user-user support activity to many folds and one FREE license each month is not a lot of cost to bear for it. what do you think?
[Reply]
Purefan Reply:
February 11th, 2009 at 4:34 am
hey have you wired our office?!?! we were just talking about it the other day…
but yeah I think we will give more prizes like this, the ruffle with the iPods didnt turn out as well as we expected mainly because the contest was for every forum user/client, and some people were not happy with the winners because they thought it was meant for those with more posts or something like this, but we will give prizes based on their activity, it could be as simple as a ruffle between the 10 most active users in the last 30 days, I feel that would be fair but we have to talk it over still so dont quote me on that ruffle
its just an example of what we could do.
[Reply]
chodhry Reply:
February 11th, 2009 at 5:59 am
LOL!!!
nah, I am telepathic. I am the eye in the sky, I can read your mind. heheh
[Reply]
Most users ever online was 109, 12-03-2008 at 02:22 PM.
Posts: 156,977
Members: 21,854
Active Members: 1,289
*********************************************************************************
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I feel the key element you guys are missing is someone with reputable forum management experience. Most of you are developers and staff and until recently had previously not been active in moderating the forums in a manner deemed acceptable standards. You have been doing a good job lately in keeping things in order, but I know deep down it’s going to require more than that if you want the next version of your platform to go beyond successful and profitable. The forum has been up for a long time and the most users (members & guests combined) online broke it’s record to reach 109 on Dec 3rd. That’s a sad number for being in business for so long. 20k + users and actively only about 15 online average is really low sorry to say.
I’ve seen this road that’s been taken, done and currently going on and I know where it leads. I hope what is going on in the back office will make a great impact to turn around the forums. Banking on allowing modders to sell mods is not the key to growth or success especially when you have difficulty managing that aspect.
Remember that it’s a “Free member to member support forum”. If the majority is paid and phpfox doesn’t provide 3rd party support then what’s left as a reason to visit everyday? Your forum niche is “Free” and you shouldn’t forget that.
Again, please don’t take what i say in the wrong manner but use it as suggestion to assist in your future plans.
[Reply]
Purefan Reply:
February 11th, 2009 at 4:45 am
Sometimes I really really wish I could tell you our plans but trust me, we have foreseen this long time ago and have strong plans for all that you mentioned here and more
[Reply]
hmmm… I can’t post. Is this topic closed?
[Reply]
The ipod was a good prize but the way the contest was handled is what caused the ruffle I believe. Has anyone seen any of the winners active on the site since the contest? How about all those that showed up to enter, where are they?
I think there could be some clever contests like
Best Design
Best Mod
MVP of the Month
Random Contests limited to active users
Best Tutorial
Best Site
and etc.
I wasn’t upset that I didn’t win the prize, I was disturbed that the winners came from out of no where and never been active on the site at all but to enter the contest only. So it wouldn’t have mattered if it was a itouch, free license, claim to victory or whatever just as long if it’s posted in the forums it should be limited to active users.
Still curious to what the +plus symbol stands for next to our user name in the board stats on the forums?
If you guys want to do random sweepstakes open to all clients then that should be kept to the blog and client center for participation. That way it’s separate from what goes on in the forum and because it’s held outside the forum well no one can really complain can they?
[Reply]
Nope not closed.
[Reply]
Well, I applied for the license or title per say. I did however want to post some additional comments but this thread won’t allow me to post if for some odd reason and then finally it gave me a error message saying that I have posted identical post already leading me to believe it or me is being moderated so if you got it, please approve it thanks (the post).
[Reply]
Anna phpFox Reply:
February 16th, 2009 at 2:27 am
We do not moderate blog comments. We do, however, use the Akismet Spam plug-in. Could not find your entry from 14th February, though. Are you adding it from the same location? It might have automatically been deleted by Akisment from our Blog Admin Panel.
Did you post your comment on February 14th, 2009?
[Reply]
Raymond Benc Reply:
February 16th, 2009 at 2:52 am
Found a few comments in Akisment, de-spammed one of them as they others seem to be identical.
It even got Purefan marked as spam
[Reply]
Purefan Reply:
February 16th, 2009 at 4:45 am
Yeaah!! that was weird… but not too important post I guess or I managed to post it in the end anyways
[Reply]
I just have seen the new third party developers reviews and wanted to comment but the thread is closed.
I just could not understand why would you always opt a difficult route? I honestly wish the new system would work but I am not sure if personally I would use this with all those added restrictions unless I am very much pissed off in some way. Positively, I may not bother to do all of the hard work.
Users we have here do not bother to click on feedback and write a single line. it looks to me as if you are trying to have a kid write an essay when he does not want to write alphabets.
[Reply]
Purefan Reply:
February 20th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Thank you for your feedback, we will take it into account.
[Reply]
My permissions are not setup on the forum… I’m unable to visit the feature request, bugtracker and misc areas around the board. I get permission errors.
Be nice to be allowed to have images for signatures in our group. Thanks for the help and support.
[Reply]
Purefan Reply:
February 20th, 2009 at 8:37 am
Ive just checked and your usergroup does have access to the bug tracker, its set to the default values and it includes viewing and posting among other privileges. Check again and let us know, if it still doesnt work post exactly what areas you do not have access and if you can view the forum section and or post or nothing or what is the problem exactly so we know what to look at
[Reply]
Anna took care it earlier today. So you might just have checked it after she fixed it.
Thanks.
[Reply]
Purefan Reply:
February 23rd, 2009 at 4:45 am
Thats what happens when everyone is efficient!
[Reply]
I agree that if a developer gets a free developer license, they should be expected to contribute to the community for free.
And mods for sale should not be on forums, there should be a separate mod store, and ability for users to leave a feedback similar to what ebay has.
Also, if a discussion is warranted for a specific mod, there should be a direct link to a discussion from the store. Right now there are many discussions going on for many different mods. And I might not even notice a discussion about a mod that I am interested in and that discussion might be vital to my buying decision.
[Reply]
Not only is it hard sometimes to find discussion about specific mod, many people start new topics asking a question that has already been answered in a different topic about that particular mod.
So if we keep it together, mod store with that mod discussion, it will be easy to find answer and keep people from asking the same question over and over again.
[Reply]
Purefan Reply:
March 11th, 2009 at 3:08 am
We are working on this, I cant go into details but we are, just please bare with us
[Reply]
But some of the stuff is unfair that is mentioned. How can you go and put posts on a forum when you have no reason to at that time? I might just go and put insignificant little comments just to boost my forum post count. It looks like there will be a hierarchy for someone to start selling their genuine mod. A mod should be judged on functionality, quality(fit for purpose) and support… Nothing else matters not number posts, thanks. Thanks do however contribute to measuring the quality of support and the mod.
What if someone has a genuine product/mod they want to sell to the community, they their income depends on them selling those mods? Why should they be given for free if someone feels they should be for free? If one feels they should be for free then they should ask for a free copy for themselves, not being a Mark Anthony and sway the crowds to slay the charging modder(Brutus) because he/she is not giving anything for free. I’ve bought mods from well respected modders that I thought should be for free, but hey, they gotta make a living. The most important thing is when you buy it, is it what it is said to be? I think phpfox should be for free, but hey, I still bought it, because it’s not my product to judge prices on. The same should apply to modders paid products, if you want it, buy it or ask the seller to give you for free.
[Reply]
[...] you have applied for the Developer’s License and Program and you are a designer releasing themes and templates then please PM us and we will [...]